Author has 1.9K answers and 1.2M answer views 3 y Nothing like a bunch of egos giving their opinions Where's that "Hot for Words" Russian sweetheart when you need her ??? RAILWAYS, MALT WHISKY, REAL ALE AND WORLD BEERS, RUM, Upcoming changes to logging in - click here, GWF is free to use so please support the Forum. Perhaps (too) much French influence on the fledgling USN in the Napoleonic Wars. A ROYAL Navy officer has been caught shooting X-rated films with her seaman lover at a top secret nuclear base. It's an achaic spelling in English, but not in French. If the Lieutenant was killed, the Left Tenant took the sword and became the Lieutenant. Seems Ben was right on the Revolutionary War beint the dividing point of British and American pronunciation, but IMO, it's pronounced with the F or V sound because of the U/V being interchangable during that time. dailyinfo[14]=' 16511 Private Albert COLEMAN "D" Coy. I looked at her carefully, Madam, I told you we have no ..CABBAFG.E cabbage ! She glared at me You idiot, theres no F in cabbage! I replied very slowly, Madam, thats what Ive been trying to tell you for the past five minutes!. Free shipping for many products! One of his wounds was a stab in the mouth which partially mangled his tongue, when he arrived at camp the next day he went to the colonels office and the Colonel asked him his name, because of his wound he pronounced it 'leftenant' and because of the relation to his name 'lefting' his pronunciation of 'leutenant' and the fact that he was left on the battlefield, that battalion changed the traditional word 'leutenant' to 'leftenant' I suppose after the story was spread it just kind of stuck. lieutenant pronunciation royal navy. How to pronounce " Lieutenant " in English -Authentic British accent Howtopronounceit 1.73K subscribers Subscribe 32 Share 11K views 4 years ago Have you just come across an English word that is. In the Royal Navy, the pronunciation used to be "L'tenant" but never "Lootenant". Frank Harrison EDINGER Army Chaplains Department who died 26/02/1918 HOLLYBROOK MEMORIAL, SOUTHAMPTON United Kingdom ' The British at the time were far more concerned with a dude named Napoleon than they were with us. I defer to your right to say it anyway you please. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Royal Indian Navy rating : Ty/ Temporary : TE. I think this will all be academic soon as widespread familiarisation with American English via movies and TV is evolving English usage in many ways. Last week I attended a lecture on strategy at the Royal United Services Institute, given by Major-General Mungo Melvin (whose book on Field Marshal Erich von Manstein is one of the best books you . 1375 "lutenand" and "That..luf-tenand Was of to the king of Yngland", 1387 "leeftenaunt". MmM4NTEzMzQyNDI0YWU5MzA1ZGU3YzRmM2QyNjIyNzE5MjYwZjM0YWFkODE0 A place where magic is studied and practiced? And what is it with these Americans, who speak of British English and a British version - hello!! This stage of training covers practical and theoretical elements of being an officer, according to the Navy. Lieutenant [1] ( Lt; French: Lieutenant, lt) is a Canadian Forces rank used by commissioned officers of the Canadian Army or Royal Canadian Air Force. We used Lutenant - or Luatenant, if that is written correct NOT Lootenant as in the American expression or Leftenat, which was considered to be `Army'!!! According to a letter from the Permanent Secretary to the Board of Admiralty mentioned in a 1949 article in American Speech, the correct pronunciation is/was either "ltnnt" or "l'tnnt". The insignia for a Lieutenant consists of two medium gold braid stripes. MjlkZGNkNTIxMzQzNTFmOWFlYTkxOWU4YzkyMDExNGE1NDYxOTYxOGViMjk2 MzQyMzNiMTQ2MDU0MGY2YTM5MjUzMmExNThjMTRhYzM0ZGRmYmU2ZGM1OGRj 0 && stateHdr.searchDesk ? Fast Forward to `Tot Commiseration Day', bloody Americans, (curse them & their DRY SHIPS which was a fore-runner), they were revolting in 1776 - and have remained so ever since !! What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? They served as watchkeeping officers and also specialised, becoming Gunnery, and later . Today in Naval History - Naval / Maritime Events in History 1st of August please use the following link and you will find the details and all events of. NzNhM2M0ZjE2OTUzMjcwNDYzNTBjMDc3YTE5ZGY5ZjBhZGM2OThkOTdiOTYx Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. lieutenant pronunciation royal navy Leinster Regiment who died 27/02/1918 JERUSALEM MEMORIAL Israel and Palestine (including Gaza) ' Featured roles Thank you. Very true but 'english' is a composite of innumerable other languages often incorrectly pronounced or altered from the original spelling or even meaning. Listen to Mr Fry here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY and go away feeling very ashamed of yourselves. In the US Navy, roles include lieutenant junior grade (LT JG . But it seems less likely. And lieutenant means place keeper (lit. Personally, I like the Latin u/v explanation. LVA stands for Lieutenant Vice Admiral in terms of royal navy ranks. YzJhODAzODZjNDA1OTNmMjQxYmVjZTlmYzI2Yzk4MDk5ZTMyODRjOGRhZjYy YzQxODA2MmJmNGEwNTE2NTFjY2Q0NmNlNThkZmFlNTAwMDM5MDQ0NzBjNThh dailyinfo[30]=' B/469 Worker Charles BARLOW Australian Munition Worker who died 30/01/1918 NORTH SHEEN CEMETERY United Kingdom ' The only deviations you will find are regional accents, which I'm sure you'll also find in the American English language. 'Lieutenant' comes from French lieu ('place') and tenant ('holding'). OTIwODg2MTA3MzFiMmMxNGMwOTczOThlZjQxNjdhNjY4NDFjOThlNDlkNDNk lieutenant (n.) late 14c., "one who takes the place of another," from Old French lieu tenant "substitute, deputy," literally "place holder" (14c. dailyinfo[2]=' 8020 Serjeant Charles POOLE "C" Coy. When factoring in bonuses and additional compensation, a . This courtesy developed when swords were still used on the battle field. This was confirmed to me by Admiral (Rtd) Rufus Mckenzie during a drink in his home, also confirmed by his Lieutenant on HMS/m THRASHER Reggie Fitzgerald. Maybe that was just RAF folks being corrupted by USAF folks while here in the states, I dunno. Some sources claim that 'lieutenant' had alternative spellings such as leftenant, leftenaunt, lieftenant, lieftenaunt etc., and that the ModE pronunciation with /f/ (BrE mostly) is a holdover from those spellings. That person stood to the 'left' of the Lieutenant. and Gen. Hos. Royal Navy who died 15/03/1917 CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL United Kingdom ' British Admirals, 1889-1919. WW2 Royal Navy Sub Lieutenant's peaked cap, HMS Indomitable. MTc1ZTU0OWMwZGM0ODA5OTc4OWQzYmQ1NmVjZGIzOWZhZjEyYWQwYzFiNGVh Lieutenant Claire Jenkins, 29, who uses the name Cally Taylor, has been making. ('v' naturally becomes a voiceless 'f' in assimilation to the following 't' in many languages.). I replied, Im sorry madam but weve run out of cabbage today, would you like a cauliflower? The lady huffed and puffed and said But I want a savoy cabbage. Later, when the drive by the English to rid the language of french words began, they modified the word to try to match their pronunciation and made it "leftenant". We're excited to bring you exclusive and bespoke licensed Royal Navy products working with the Royal Navy Royal Marines Charity, Royal Navy Association and Submariners Association. Routing number of commercial bank of Ethiopia? Click on the arrows to change the translation direction. I was curious why it is pronounced that way by the British. Historically, the lieutenants in a ship were ranked in accordance with seniority, with the most senior being termed the first lieutenant and acting as the second-in-command. I do enjoy the battle between the Americans and the British as to which is "proper" English". After the post, I will try to research the etymology of 'Lieutenant.' It is therefore not surprising that the Navy's rank, profession, trade, pay and related badges structures were complex, and even today defy any claim to really understand them in full. About; The Court; Merit Selection; Kansas Values; News; Donate; "lieutenant" "pronunciation" "royal navy" December 12, 2022 by fcs coaches on the hot seat by fcs coaches on the hot seat It gives only Received Pronunciations, omitting variation between. The word comes originally from Old French, and according to the OED, Old French replaced word- and syllable-final [w] with [f]; for the Modern French word lieu, this is shown by an Old French spelling variant luef. dailyinfo[4]=' Matrose Paul KURZKE Torpedoboot "G85" German Navy who died 04/03/1919 CANNOCK CHASE GERMAN MILITARY CEMETERY United Kingdom ' Welcome to The Royal Navy Shop. Drinking too much water is #1 on the list! Royal Canadian Navy: Canadian Forces (Force Mobile Command, Air Command) Royal Canadian . SEVER CEMETERY EXTENSION, ROUEN France ' [89], The Lieutenant or WO III After 1940, the WO III rank was abolished and most of these WO IIIs were commissioned as officers. This little story offers another simple explanation of the inserted "F" in the pronunciation. Most English speaking nations, with the exception of the United States, still pronounce the word as though there is an "f" in it. dailyinfo[31]=' 420628 Sapper William Bayne YOUNG 63rd Field Coy. No one really knows why, it's just one of those things that happens with military tradition. Oh dear Bryan, don't you mean 'off'. MDYzZmM2MjY3YmEzMTllNDU5NTkzMDNlODZlMzUxYTkyYWExNjE1MDg0OTBl The United States Coast Guard follows the same policy regarding promotion to lieutenant. Irish Guards who died 18/03/1916 CALAIS SOUTHERN CEMETERY France ' Fun Fact: American english, and all of it's accents is named general american Oh, for goodness sake: grow up, will you? eyJtZXNzYWdlIjoiYWI0NjU5MTI5OWU1ZmVmYzM1NWQ2Y2M3ZmJjYmU0OTE3 New Zealand Engineers who died 13/03/1918 ST. POL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France ' One could explain this the influence of non-British immigrants applying standard French pronunciation to a word with apparently obvious French origins. (Not all of you, some of you had some insightful comments above; but the anally retentive chauvinists above know who they are). 55th and 57th Divisions Anybody got a copy ? Or, the Anglophones confused the lieu with the English word leave (live) as and got the pronunciation /l(j)evtnnt/ instead of /l(j)utnnt/ and then later on the /v/ got devoiced to /f/, Or, the pronunciation with /f/ is a holdover from one of the spellings with an orthographic f. Or, the /v/ was epenthetic (cf. derrico family names and ages; llano uplift location Lieutenant Commander's may be Executive Officers and also they may find themselves Commanding Officers of some of the Royal Navy's smaller units. 16 Reply [deleted] 5 yr. ago [removed] Reply In the world of words and the diversity of accents and local dialects, some words can be extremely hard to pronounce.Juliens instructional and educational videos make pronunciation easier as I detail the correct pronunciation as native French speaker but also fluent speaker of French, English, Spanish and Italian.-If you found this video helpful please like the video to support my work.-If you would like help with any future pronunciations please be sure to subscribe!-Thanks for Watching How To Pronounce with Julien and happy pronouncing. MDUwMTdkNzA4YTAxNTJkZWY1ZWU0M2U2M2U0YjViZGNjN2ZlZjEyYTQ0YjQ4 dailyinfo[23]=' 9656 Private Isaac COOPER "A" Coy. Over time the word "locum" evolved into the French word "lieu", which is pronounced in French as it is spelled. [citation needed], In the Royal Navy, promotion to lieutenant is done in line with seniority. Lieutenant Sub-Lieutenant Commissioned Warrant Officer Engineer Branch From 1 April, 1903, the ranks and titles of officers of the Engineer Branch were changed and given titles akin to the Military Branch. lieu as the first element of a compound was sometimes apprehended by Englishmen as a v or f. Possibly some of the forms may be due to association with LEAVE sb. . In Spanish and Portuguese, they dropped the lieu [lugar], and kept teniente and tenente, respectively. As far as I'm aware the English/British pronunciation is and has always been "leftenant". I'll bet George Washington used the English term at the beginning. I'm sorry for some of the rude comments produced by some of the Americans' answers. Appalachian accents are much twangier, but some have posited that Elizabethan English sounded a lot like Appalachian speak. Remembered Today: GWF is free to use so please support the Forum. NGEyNDg1YjNkOGQ1YmM4ZmMxZjJjMjIzOTg0OGIwYTFhMWQ2ZTBjNWQ4Y2Ux Is it like saying "Leftenant" without the f, or saying "le tenant"? The Royal Navy recruitment test - Verbal ability. More of an observation than fact. Welcome to EL&U. . but what I don't understand is how there is this large difference in pronunciation of our words, seeing as we stemmed off of you, the should still be accents that reflect where our accents came from, because accents don't change overnight, and they sure as hell don't deviate from themselves. On submarines and smaller Coast Guard cutters, the billet of first lieutenant may be filled by a petty officer. NWEzNjA5OGIwZDA4MDk1MzliMTE3N2YwNjNjZDVhYjM5MTBmNjljNzQ3Y2Zm In the United States Navy, promotion to lieutenant is governed by United States Department of Defense policies derived from the Defense Officer Personnel Management Act (DOPMA) of 1980. It's not just French dialects: consider modern French "neuf" ("nine") < "novem", "neuf" (new) < "novum", "boeuf" ("bull") < "bovem", "naf" ("naive") < "nativum". Forum discussions with the word (s) "lieutenant" in the title: Yzk5ZTUzOWRkMzJlZjIyZDJhZDVkZWMyMjcyYzE4ZGEyN2ZjOTEzMzQwNDQw Born in Gateshead, Blake joined the RN in early 1939 and was assigned to the Fleet Air Arm for flight training. The U.S. Army, Air Force, and Marines have second lieutenants (2nd Lt.) and first lieutenants (1st Lt.). (Salonika) Territorial Force Nursing Service who died 01/03/1918 KNOWLE (SS. English's beauty/zaniness comes from how Brits spell the words as they came to us -- it's a sort of mini-etymology in every word -- simplifying it is cheating & lazy. The Great War Forum Limited Like Beauchamp Square, De Beauvoir Town. Sub Lieutenant - After one year as a Midshipman, officer cadets are automatically promoted to Sub-Lieutenant. Commander dailyinfo[19]=' 9228 Corporal George F. PARRY 2nd Bn. There are differences in the way it is spelt and spoken but ultimately isn't it great that so many people can share a common language and so be able to develop a common understanding. You could also serve in the Ministry of Defence. Reason for different pronunciations of "lieutenant", We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Deciphering two words from their Archaic spellings. I should know having served with 21 Signal Regt (AS) in Germany but cant remember. A first-rate ship was entitled to six, and they were numbered accordingly. While Americans (and possibly others) pronounce this as "loo-tenant", folks from the UK pronounce it as "lef-tenant". This pattern was copied by the United States Navy, the United States Coast Guard, United States Public Health Service (USPHS) Commissioned Corps the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration Commissioned Officer Corps (NOAA Corps), and various air forces (primarily those of the United Kingdom, British Commonwealth, and nations formerly aligned with the Crown) for their equivalent ranks and grades, except that the executive curl is removed (see flight lieutenant). ODU0OWY0ZTA0ZmIyNDgwYmI3MWViZDFmNDk4MDY2ODRiOWI4MDc5ODgyMWMw The reason why people from the commonwealth say "lef-tenant" can probably be attributed to the U being misread as a V during the middle ages, which in turn developed into and F sound. lieutenant commander (royal navy) English translation: lieutenant commander (royal navy).. I thought the pronunciation with /f/ arose from the 'minim confusion'; in Middle English, both v and u were used interchangeably. var dailyinfo= new Array(31) Simon, David, Dragon - the nearest I can get in phonetics is LUHtenant. Have a definition for Lieutenant (Canada) ? - All officers join the Royal Navy at this rank while training for a specialist role at BRNC in Dartmouth. ZTk3YzRlZTJjMjg2NmYzMmIyZTE5NTQ3Mzc1NjA1YTMwNGE3ZmNhZTg1ZDdi Lincolnshire Regiment who died 05/03/1916 CITE BONJEAN MILITARY CEMETERY, ARMENTIERES France ' Such is the case with the word lieutenant. M2M0ZTc2Njg0NGNlM2I5YmIwZTRiZDBlNWE2MzJlZjFmYjFkYWI4NzUzMzNm 3rd Bn. Americans changed it to fit their own odd version of a perfect language. Shayn M. $256.01 01.12.1952-(05.1953) HMS Orion (submarine) (07.1954) no appointment listed: 21.09.1954 : RN Torpedo Depot Antrim . From Latin then, lieutenant literally means "place holder" and the military lieutenant acts on behalf ofor in place oftheir commanding officer. lieutenant pronunciation royal navy. 'hafta' from have to). var fontstart = '' This spelling was to stick to the pronunciation, and not the opposite, as there is not "lefttenant" in old French. Seaforth Highlanders who died 20/03/1919 BEIRUT WAR CEMETERY Lebanese Republic ' As the rank structure of navies stabilized, and the ranks of commander, lieutenant commander, and sub-lieutenant (or lieutenant, junior grade in the U.S. services) were introduced, the rank of naval lieutenant became less wide-ranging and is today the equivalent of an army captain. I'm still not sure how on earth to pronounce it (even though I've had that "American Speech" article I quoted from for five years now). Remembered Today: The Royal Navy Shop is brought to you in association with Pussers Rum. We stung the pride of the Royal Navy more than anything. var fontend = '' lieutenant / ( lftnnt, US lutnnt) / noun a military officer holding commissioned rank immediately junior to a captain a naval officer holding commissioned rank immediately junior to a lieutenant commander US an officer in a police or fire department ranking immediately junior to a captain In his world the word is pronounced li-you-tenant, combining the correct pronunciation of the word lieu with tenant. Share; Posted 8 March , 2012 . . You make a good point about the whole 'loo' part of it. Unlike other words that have been standardised to read more phonetically (especially true in the United States), military terms have tended to retain their peculiarities out of a desire to maintain traditions. An officer was referred to as "platoon commander" while a WO III in the same position was called a "Platoon Sergeant Major" or PSM. A teacher walks into the Classroom and says If only Yesterday was Tomorrow Today would have been a Saturday Which Day did the Teacher make this Statement? Why does everyone say Colonel as "Kernel" or Coxswain as "Koksin"? Royal Engineers who died 31/01/1919 COLOGNE SOUTHERN CEMETERY Germany ' The French have said lieu at least back to the Middle Ages. No, "lief" is a different word, akin to "love" (German "Lieb"). Modern French pouvoir from pooir). How is lieutenant pronounced in the Royal Navy? The typical Royal Navy Lieutenant salary is 51,652 per year. Primary Menu. Well, the Australian navy was a copy cat of the RN in all things good (and bad) and it was always Lef - tenant there. dailyinfo[3]=' 45 Gunner HAZURA SINGH 31st Mountain Battery Indian Mountain Artillery who died 03/03/1920 TEHRAN MEMORIAL Iranm ' What is the purpose of this D-shaped ring at the base of the tongue on my hiking boots? lieutenant /lftnnt/ (say lef'tenuhnt) as the primary pronunciaton, although/lutnnt/ (say looh'tenuhnt), and Navy /ltnnt/ (say luh'tenuhnt) are alternatives. YWVmOGM3ZDZkNTJhNjYwMjlhNmI5MDBiYmViYjY1M2ZiNDA5MzFiYTc3YmQ5 Apply for a career in The Royal Canadian Navy Apply Now Royal Warwickshire Regiment who died 12/03/1918 ST. With that said, my best assumption would be the translation from French is the most likely reason for the difference in pronunciations. According to More Word Histories and Mysteries: From Aardvark to Zombie (American Heritage Dictionary), the origin of the pronunciation with /f/ is not known with any certainty, but similar pronunciations are attested in Middle English times by such spellings as leuftenant, luffetenand, and levetenaunt. N2IzYjQ4ODUyMzYzYWZjMWQ0Y2M5YzI4MjI0YjUyNmYyMTBmMmQyOWZlNDFj This would suggest that the word was originally French, and the leftenant pronunciation is down to some poor transliteration during the middle ages. WW2 US M1 HELMET LINER H R HOOD RUBBER GOOD CONDITION. Hunza Guides is Pakistan's top mountain destination management company offering full board tours, trekking and expeditions services in Pakistan. Kauna unahang parabula na inilimbag sa bhutan. Michael T. Prosser, Campbell River BC. I think a lot of younger people in the UK also do so. lent to Royal Canadian Navy at Halifax, NS [HMCS Stadacona?] 5th Bde. Lieutenant Commander You'll lead a department or be Executive Officer (XO) or Commanding Officer (CO) in a smaller unit. You might want to rule the world from Washington - but it's still English. pronouncing the R in Water), it should be noted that their decline in England is a rather recent phenomenon. Looking in a dictionary published at the time of or very close to the Great War would give authoritative evidence of how it was pronounced at that time. - from freedictionary.com. $107.59 + $40.35 shipping. form luef for lieu (with which cf. Of means to show ownership. King's (Liverpool Regiment) That could have something to do with it. and a "lieutenant in command" or "lieutenant and commander" in the Royal Navy. "The first reference to a naval Lieutenant is in 1580 when one was borne in each ship as the Captain's understudy. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. Here's a map of Rhotic accents in the 1950's: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/RhoticEngland.png , but this is what it looks like now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RhoticEngland2.png . @BrianHooper I am not sure that is exactly correct. In minor war vessels, destroyers and frigates, the first lieutenant (either a lieutenant or lieutenant commander) is second in command, executive officer (XO) and head of the executive branch; in larger ships, where a commander of the warfare specialisation is appointed as the executive officer, a first lieutenant (normally a lieutenant commander) is appointed as his deputy. - lieutenancy - Lt. - sublieutenant - three-star - two-star Spanish: tenienta - teniente - alfrez - inspector de polica - subteniente In Lists: Police ranks (US), Military naval ranks (US), more. Why do North Americans pronounce "caramel" as "carmel"? if (dailyinfo[daym] != "") { document.write(fontstart+dailyinfo[daym]+fontend) } Prince William holds the rank of Captain in the Blues and Royals, Lieutenant in the. Liftenant in the army, lose the 'F' for the navy and John Wayne was a Louie. A lieutenant is the second junior-most or in some cases the junior-most commissioned officer in the armed forces, fire services, police, and other organizations of many nations. It thus seems to be a spelling pronunciation. dailyinfo[25]=' 262952 Private Archibald Stanley BURGNEAY 8th Bn. MjhjYjNlYjk1YjUwNTA3MGEwNGZmYWFhYjk2Yzg4MzE3OThiNjkyZjg2ZWZj I'm still not sure how on earth to pronounce it (even though I've had that "American Speech" article I quoted from for five years now). How To Spell "Lieutenant" Lieutenant (commissioned officer in the armed forces, police, or other organization) is also derived from French. Even later, when the Americans cuddled up to the French during the revolutionary war, their pronunciation changed to follow the french term. Now, British English is a non-rhotic language, like Boston English, which traditional English is NOT. (lf-tnnt) A commissioned officer in the British and Canadian navies ranking just below a lieutenant commander. //-->, By The most prevalent opinion seems to be down to the Roman Latin use of the letter "V" in place of a "U". Here's a link to an article that explains the whole thing: http://mentalfloss.com/article/29761/when-did-americans-lose-their-british-accents